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	<title>Comments on: Call me apathetic</title>
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	<link>http://blog.kapenilattex.com/2007/09/25/becoming-apathy/</link>
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		<title>By: Jon Limjap</title>
		<link>http://blog.kapenilattex.com/2007/09/25/becoming-apathy/comment-page-1/#comment-14701</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Limjap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.kapenilattex.com/2007/09/25/becoming-apathy/#comment-14701</guid>
		<description>siu,

I think Cogs didn&#039;t get past &quot;get used to it&quot;.

I mean, if you&#039;ve lived this kind of political environment, you do get used to it to a certain extent -- as in my example, like a coroner who gets used to the dead and conducts autopsies. 

You still have opinions, but you only hope against hope that they are heard and heeded. You&#039;re left to your own devices.

In some ways it allows you to be level headed and objective enough to go on with your own life, not unlike the coroner who can objectively examine internal organs in various conditions without throwing up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>siu,</p>
<p>I think Cogs didn&#8217;t get past &#8220;get used to it&#8221;.</p>
<p>I mean, if you&#8217;ve lived this kind of political environment, you do get used to it to a certain extent &#8212; as in my example, like a coroner who gets used to the dead and conducts autopsies. </p>
<p>You still have opinions, but you only hope against hope that they are heard and heeded. You&#8217;re left to your own devices.</p>
<p>In some ways it allows you to be level headed and objective enough to go on with your own life, not unlike the coroner who can objectively examine internal organs in various conditions without throwing up.</p>
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		<title>By: siu</title>
		<link>http://blog.kapenilattex.com/2007/09/25/becoming-apathy/comment-page-1/#comment-14699</link>
		<dc:creator>siu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:11:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.kapenilattex.com/2007/09/25/becoming-apathy/#comment-14699</guid>
		<description>wow, i find it absurd that someone as opinionated as you are, whose views apparently mean that you still give a damn to this country, and as are a lot of people - and call them apathetic?
That&#039;s pathetic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow, i find it absurd that someone as opinionated as you are, whose views apparently mean that you still give a damn to this country, and as are a lot of people &#8211; and call them apathetic?<br />
That&#8217;s pathetic.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Limjap</title>
		<link>http://blog.kapenilattex.com/2007/09/25/becoming-apathy/comment-page-1/#comment-14681</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Limjap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 23:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.kapenilattex.com/2007/09/25/becoming-apathy/#comment-14681</guid>
		<description>cvj,

I&#039;ll just refer you the the response that I posted on torn&#039;s original post. There, I said that there must be a balance somewhere between cries of outrage and acts towards genuine solutions. I think merely leaning towards opinion formation is as dangerous as you claim my apathy is.

Kris,

The person you quoted is John F. Kennedy on his inaugural speech. It goes &quot;ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country&quot; -- he did use the word &quot;country&quot;.

You made a very beautiful point there, wherein half of the problem (and therefore, the responsibility) is with the people. Unfortunately our citizenry tends to blame and rely on the government for everything, much in the same way serfs treated their feudal Lords.

No wonder we&#039;re stuck in the Middle Ages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cvj,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll just refer you the the response that I posted on torn&#8217;s original post. There, I said that there must be a balance somewhere between cries of outrage and acts towards genuine solutions. I think merely leaning towards opinion formation is as dangerous as you claim my apathy is.</p>
<p>Kris,</p>
<p>The person you quoted is John F. Kennedy on his inaugural speech. It goes &#8220;ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country&#8221; &#8212; he did use the word &#8220;country&#8221;.</p>
<p>You made a very beautiful point there, wherein half of the problem (and therefore, the responsibility) is with the people. Unfortunately our citizenry tends to blame and rely on the government for everything, much in the same way serfs treated their feudal Lords.</p>
<p>No wonder we&#8217;re stuck in the Middle Ages.</p>
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		<title>By: Kris</title>
		<link>http://blog.kapenilattex.com/2007/09/25/becoming-apathy/comment-page-1/#comment-14677</link>
		<dc:creator>Kris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.kapenilattex.com/2007/09/25/becoming-apathy/#comment-14677</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think you are apathetic. You just don&#039;t agree with the unorginal protests that Filipinos love doing(kahit walang maibigay na concrete solution but a rather recycled one which proved ineffective). I used to believe in protests back in high school because of &#039;brainwashing&#039;. But the moment I stepped in college, I was totally turned off.  Most protesters, I have observed, are not genuinely concerned about the general welfare but merely their faces. I&#039;m so sick of the student council bashing the school admin these SC people are not &#039;cleaner&#039; than the one they&#039;re bashing The people behind have their own personal agendas(exposure, nice thing to put on their CV, etc..). Now, I realize that the problem of our society is so deep that the best solution is to start from down there rather than up there. Why do we have so many bad national politicians? Because at the lowest level(student council, organizations), politics is already VERY DIRTY. The officials of these little orgs hide behind the mask of &quot;democracy&quot; for their personal benefit. Not really different from the national politicians, no?

We&#039;re not apathetic. We just have different approach on how to contribute to the society. Like me, I practice waste segregation even if it&#039;s not strictly enforced.I don&#039;t think it&#039;s even enforced! I use the pedestrian lane and pedestrian overpass an do not jaywalk even if it would take me ten minutes to get to the pedestrian lane. I don&#039;t go down/ride public transportation right in front of a sign saying &quot;No Loading/Unloading&quot;. I don&#039;t buy ukay-ukays and second hand cellphones because these businesses do not help the economy --only the selfish &#039;businesspeople&#039; and smugglers. I don&#039;t think I am apathetic just because I don&#039;t protest with these groups.  You see, I acknowledge than there are major flaws in the educational system. But a huge contribution to this is on the part of the students. I mean, look how many of them do school work for the sake of passing it. I know many who would cheat just to pass or to get a high grade. Isn&#039;t it better to be a better student in helping reform the educational system rather than &#039;protesting&#039;? 

Many people failed to realize that half of the problem is generated by the government, the other half -- from the citizens. I remember this quote by an American. It&#039;s something like this:(not exact but the idea is here)&quot;Do not ask for what your government can do for you but think of what you can do for your government. In this case, let us replace &#039;government&#039; with &#039;country&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think you are apathetic. You just don&#8217;t agree with the unorginal protests that Filipinos love doing(kahit walang maibigay na concrete solution but a rather recycled one which proved ineffective). I used to believe in protests back in high school because of &#8216;brainwashing&#8217;. But the moment I stepped in college, I was totally turned off.  Most protesters, I have observed, are not genuinely concerned about the general welfare but merely their faces. I&#8217;m so sick of the student council bashing the school admin these SC people are not &#8216;cleaner&#8217; than the one they&#8217;re bashing The people behind have their own personal agendas(exposure, nice thing to put on their CV, etc..). Now, I realize that the problem of our society is so deep that the best solution is to start from down there rather than up there. Why do we have so many bad national politicians? Because at the lowest level(student council, organizations), politics is already VERY DIRTY. The officials of these little orgs hide behind the mask of &#8220;democracy&#8221; for their personal benefit. Not really different from the national politicians, no?</p>
<p>We&#8217;re not apathetic. We just have different approach on how to contribute to the society. Like me, I practice waste segregation even if it&#8217;s not strictly enforced.I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s even enforced! I use the pedestrian lane and pedestrian overpass an do not jaywalk even if it would take me ten minutes to get to the pedestrian lane. I don&#8217;t go down/ride public transportation right in front of a sign saying &#8220;No Loading/Unloading&#8221;. I don&#8217;t buy ukay-ukays and second hand cellphones because these businesses do not help the economy &#8211;only the selfish &#8216;businesspeople&#8217; and smugglers. I don&#8217;t think I am apathetic just because I don&#8217;t protest with these groups.  You see, I acknowledge than there are major flaws in the educational system. But a huge contribution to this is on the part of the students. I mean, look how many of them do school work for the sake of passing it. I know many who would cheat just to pass or to get a high grade. Isn&#8217;t it better to be a better student in helping reform the educational system rather than &#8216;protesting&#8217;? </p>
<p>Many people failed to realize that half of the problem is generated by the government, the other half &#8212; from the citizens. I remember this quote by an American. It&#8217;s something like this:(not exact but the idea is here)&#8221;Do not ask for what your government can do for you but think of what you can do for your government. In this case, let us replace &#8216;government&#8217; with &#8216;country&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: cvj</title>
		<link>http://blog.kapenilattex.com/2007/09/25/becoming-apathy/comment-page-1/#comment-14660</link>
		<dc:creator>cvj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 11:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.kapenilattex.com/2007/09/25/becoming-apathy/#comment-14660</guid>
		<description>Jon, i remember sometime back (over at micketymoc&#039;s blog), i told you that there are no guarantees. Since politicians are people with a mind of their own, it&#039;s naive to expect one. We have to keep lending our voice not because what he hope to achieve is easy, but because it is hard. 

Given our present system, the odds are that our politicians once in power would tend to put their interests above that of the people.  They do this because they have learned that they can get away with doing so.  If we ignore them, then this learned behavior is rewarded and reinforced.  Only collective action in the face of betrayal of public trust will force them to learn otherwise.  

Practically speaking, our leaders only listen to us if we speak and act in sufficient numbers, that is, if they see that public opinion is overwhelmingly not on their side.  If people like you who know right from wrong keep silent, then that is one less voice who could have added to that number.   Multiply that a few million times, then you get the culture of impunity that we have now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon, i remember sometime back (over at micketymoc&#8217;s blog), i told you that there are no guarantees. Since politicians are people with a mind of their own, it&#8217;s naive to expect one. We have to keep lending our voice not because what he hope to achieve is easy, but because it is hard. </p>
<p>Given our present system, the odds are that our politicians once in power would tend to put their interests above that of the people.  They do this because they have learned that they can get away with doing so.  If we ignore them, then this learned behavior is rewarded and reinforced.  Only collective action in the face of betrayal of public trust will force them to learn otherwise.  </p>
<p>Practically speaking, our leaders only listen to us if we speak and act in sufficient numbers, that is, if they see that public opinion is overwhelmingly not on their side.  If people like you who know right from wrong keep silent, then that is one less voice who could have added to that number.   Multiply that a few million times, then you get the culture of impunity that we have now.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Limjap</title>
		<link>http://blog.kapenilattex.com/2007/09/25/becoming-apathy/comment-page-1/#comment-14654</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Limjap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.kapenilattex.com/2007/09/25/becoming-apathy/#comment-14654</guid>
		<description>cvj,

But then my problem always is, how do I know that marching and voicing out per se actually contributes to the welfare of the country when there are no tangible results? And when results contradict what has been marched for?

I have said it in the other blog, the two EDSAs only served to put into power systems and people who are not very different from the systems and people they served to remove -- and those were the largest and most tangibly effective protest actions we have taken.

How can you prove to me and assure me that it is not a waste of my time and effort when historical evidence points in that direction?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cvj,</p>
<p>But then my problem always is, how do I know that marching and voicing out per se actually contributes to the welfare of the country when there are no tangible results? And when results contradict what has been marched for?</p>
<p>I have said it in the other blog, the two EDSAs only served to put into power systems and people who are not very different from the systems and people they served to remove &#8212; and those were the largest and most tangibly effective protest actions we have taken.</p>
<p>How can you prove to me and assure me that it is not a waste of my time and effort when historical evidence points in that direction?</p>
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		<title>By: cvj</title>
		<link>http://blog.kapenilattex.com/2007/09/25/becoming-apathy/comment-page-1/#comment-14651</link>
		<dc:creator>cvj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 08:26:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.kapenilattex.com/2007/09/25/becoming-apathy/#comment-14651</guid>
		<description>I think you have to revisit your assumption that when you march, you have to march under the banner of the Left.   You can also march  in the name of basic human decency (against killings, against corruption, for integrity etc.)  Contributing to the welfare of the country in our private capacity (by improving ourselves, looking after our family and local community) is no substitute to our responsibility towards the country as a whole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you have to revisit your assumption that when you march, you have to march under the banner of the Left.   You can also march  in the name of basic human decency (against killings, against corruption, for integrity etc.)  Contributing to the welfare of the country in our private capacity (by improving ourselves, looking after our family and local community) is no substitute to our responsibility towards the country as a whole.</p>
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		<title>By: Prudence</title>
		<link>http://blog.kapenilattex.com/2007/09/25/becoming-apathy/comment-page-1/#comment-14640</link>
		<dc:creator>Prudence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 03:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.kapenilattex.com/2007/09/25/becoming-apathy/#comment-14640</guid>
		<description>&quot;At the time I acquired disdain towards the Leftist movement because Iâ€™ve gone tired of all its â€œibagsak!â€ mentality&quot;

--- Yup, I agree.  I&#039;ve also gone tired of those who kept on rallying on the streets with every controversial news that comes up.  Yes, it does bring the issue to the attention of some, but mostly it just disrupts the orderly lives of those who already know the issue but chose to do something else that could lead to the betterment of their lives and those that they care for.  

I agree with bugsybee that we would be better off improving ourselves so that we may contribute to the welfare of our country.  And I think most importantly, we would be better off improving ourselves than be routinely putting down others by condemning them while we, ourselves, are not being productive at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;At the time I acquired disdain towards the Leftist movement because Iâ€™ve gone tired of all its â€œibagsak!â€ mentality&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8212; Yup, I agree.  I&#8217;ve also gone tired of those who kept on rallying on the streets with every controversial news that comes up.  Yes, it does bring the issue to the attention of some, but mostly it just disrupts the orderly lives of those who already know the issue but chose to do something else that could lead to the betterment of their lives and those that they care for.  </p>
<p>I agree with bugsybee that we would be better off improving ourselves so that we may contribute to the welfare of our country.  And I think most importantly, we would be better off improving ourselves than be routinely putting down others by condemning them while we, ourselves, are not being productive at all.</p>
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		<title>By: bugsybee</title>
		<link>http://blog.kapenilattex.com/2007/09/25/becoming-apathy/comment-page-1/#comment-14639</link>
		<dc:creator>bugsybee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 02:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.kapenilattex.com/2007/09/25/becoming-apathy/#comment-14639</guid>
		<description>You said it!

If I can change myself and become a better citizen because I am a better teacher, a better doctor, a better street cleaner, a better tax collector, then I will have been able to contribute to a better Philippines.  We can work from where we are without having to shout ourselves hoarse at a rally.  

I abhor rallies organized at the drop of a pin (which I think is what the ibagsak-people do for a living) ... I would rather hold classes so my students can have better chances of passing the board exams.  Is that apathy?  We do discuss national and local issues.  We discuss ethics and good governance.  We discuss life.  And, when it is time to move, we move.  I brought my whole class to the plaza - even if it was raining- to join the multitude of people shouting for the ouster of Erap.  But we can&#039;t afford to do this every week.

Better to change a few so the few can multiply to many.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You said it!</p>
<p>If I can change myself and become a better citizen because I am a better teacher, a better doctor, a better street cleaner, a better tax collector, then I will have been able to contribute to a better Philippines.  We can work from where we are without having to shout ourselves hoarse at a rally.  </p>
<p>I abhor rallies organized at the drop of a pin (which I think is what the ibagsak-people do for a living) &#8230; I would rather hold classes so my students can have better chances of passing the board exams.  Is that apathy?  We do discuss national and local issues.  We discuss ethics and good governance.  We discuss life.  And, when it is time to move, we move.  I brought my whole class to the plaza &#8211; even if it was raining- to join the multitude of people shouting for the ouster of Erap.  But we can&#8217;t afford to do this every week.</p>
<p>Better to change a few so the few can multiply to many.</p>
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		<title>By: cocoy</title>
		<link>http://blog.kapenilattex.com/2007/09/25/becoming-apathy/comment-page-1/#comment-14638</link>
		<dc:creator>cocoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 00:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.kapenilattex.com/2007/09/25/becoming-apathy/#comment-14638</guid>
		<description>*nods in agreement*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*nods in agreement*</p>
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